TStevens
Registered: 12/29/05
Posts: 134
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Reply with quote | #21 |
scherz 2 things:
1) what was your time and
2) i'm not sure i want a pox on my house. that doesn't sound very good
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scherz
Registered: 06/18/07
Posts: 793
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Dutch
WPH Fitness Dir
Registered: 04/24/09
Posts: 3
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Reply with quote | #23 |
Hey fellas,
I wanted to chime in here an see if you are interested in having a website devoted to workouts for handball.
I also want to see what you would be interested in as far as educational opportunities for Handballers.
Crossfit is way under utilized so let me know what i can do to make it work for everyone.
Thanks,
Dutch
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BenThum
Registered: 12/07/05
Posts: 1,988
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Reply with quote | #24 |
Quote: Originally Posted by scherz
2. Isn't that Shakespeare? It popped in my head as I was typing. I'm not even sure what it means, but it sounds vicious.
Correct! 'Shakespeare' does not appear to often on this board (for some reason)
so thanks for that
a reference to Mercutio's line in 'Romeo and Juliet' as he lay dying:
"A plague o' both your houses"
but sometimes quoted as 'pox' stedda 'plague'
Shakespeare lies dormant in our subconscious and awakes at the oddest times ~ 
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bmehilos
Registered: 12/08/05
Posts: 240
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Reply with quote | #25 |
Dutch,
To answer your question, I personally am definitely interested in more crossfit workouts for handball. I just starting trying some of the workouts, and I am hooked. I can't do any of it well, but I like the challenge.
I actually just saw that you were out in the Chicago crossfit gym for some kind of seminar. Good stuff!
-Billy
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jimgarner
WPH VP
Registered: 12/14/05
Posts: 34
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Reply with quote | #26 |
Dutch
What do you recommend for cardiovascular exercise when it is difficult to use one of my knees? Needs to be replaced. I can walk, but anything to do with running or putting too much stress on the knee does not work. How can you cross train but not overtax the knee?
Jim Garner
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cdoyleone
Registered: 12/02/06
Posts: 24
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Reply with quote | #27 |
DUTCH,
I ALSO HAVE A BAD KNEE, AND HAVE HAD A HIP REPLACEMENT. I AM ALSO INTERESTED IN CROSS TRAINING WITHOUT UNDO STRESS ON THE KNEE, LIKE JIM GARNER IS.
THANKS,
CHARLIE DOYLE
cdoyleone1@yahoo.com
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Dutch
WPH Fitness Dir
Registered: 04/24/09
Posts: 3
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Reply with quote | #28 |
Billy,
I am glad you are getting into it. My first recommendation is to scale it to keep you within 5-15 minutes per workout. Remember you are working as hard as you can relatively work for a short time to elicit a powerful response. This is why Crossfit works so well as a conditioning program.
Jim and Charlie,
You guys might not believe me but the best thing you can do for your knees is squat. When i say squat i don't mean with any weight. We call them body weight squats. The squat is a natural movement that we were all designed to do. Unless there is some structural limitation like a fused joint or something it will benefit everyone to squat. It is also incredibly rehabilitative to your knee and hip joint.
Having said this let me try to explain how you should squat. Many of the injuries attributed to squatting is mainly do to poor mechanics.
For the guys with pain don't push it past what is comfortable. If its hard, its different than being painful. It will be hard. For everyone else strive for full range of motion. That means all the way down!! Think african villager squat.
You will start with your feet shoulder width apart with your toes slightly pointed out. Feel the nice curve in your back as you stand there and try to maintain that through the movement. I should be dangerous with no load but be careful when loads are introduced. To initiate the movement push you hips back. Think about sitting down on the crapper. The weight should be in your heels and you knees should track over your toes. Get someone to watch so you don't hurt yourself. There are countless videos on Crossfit.com under exercises and demos on the right hand side. Again go as low as you can then drive through the heels to return to standing. Do a couple with perfect form to get the feeling of it then try this.
3 rounds.
30 squats
100m sprint
If you are new to this or can;t do 30 squats without stopping. Scale it back to 20,10, or 5. You see the infinite scalability here?
Can't run? Meet your new friend called the Concept 2 rower. Nearly every health club has one. Don't have much time but want a "cardio" workout? Try 4x500m or a 200m row. Row like you mean it. You can do the above workout with the rower or even on a bike. I would stay away from the eliptical. I i have seen studies that say it places more stress on the knees than running.
I erally want this to take off for Handball. If you would like for me to start posting workouts again i will. I just want to know that people are doing them. Post your times for some accountability and this could be a fun experiment!
Dutch
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Dutch
WPH Fitness Dir
Registered: 04/24/09
Posts: 3
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Reply with quote | #29 |
Hey everyone!
This is an article i wrote for the Performance Menu (a fitness and training journal). I hope it gives ya'll a better understanding of how and why Crossfit works so well.
Enjoy and let me know if there are any questions.
Dutch
Those of you that know me may find it hard to believe i am about to write an article about plans but hold your tongue for a couple minutes and listen to what i have to say.
In Crossfit and any other randomized program the results are driven by the variability and ability to maximize individual power output. In the future i will take a global view on the goals of a good program but for now i will stick with the micro (day to day) view on planning workouts.
When i program for myself and my clients i try to have a goal in mind. This goal is either time related or power related. In Crossfit there are 2 ways to create a workout. The first way is to leave the amount of work up to the athlete and set the amount of time they are to work. The simplest example of this is how far you can run in twenty minutes.
The second type of workout is a task priority where your work load is set and the time depends on the athlete. An example of this would be a 2 mile run for time. I like to take it a step further and try to put my finger on how long it will take a firebreather to run the 2 miles and try give everyone else that same experience.
I have been a Crossfitter for over 4 years now and have seen some really good programming as well as some really terrible programs (programs that don’t maximize power). There is alot of leeway when creating workouts for Crossfit. Many terrible workouts can be written off with the excuse that you have to be ready for anything and that life is constantly varied. I will admit there is value in these workouts, but that value is limited and should therefore limit the frequency of these ineffective workouts.
What do i suggest? I recommend at least 70% of conditioning should be between 5 and 20 minutes. This does not include your strength work. Notice also that i said at least. After a great conversation with James Fitzgerald and observing other amazing crossfitters i have come to the conclusion that different time domains work better for each athlete. James tends to thrive in the 10-15 minute range while I thrive at anything under 8 minutes. I think it would be ideal to keep 85-90% of your training below 20 minutes. Be sure to experience about 15-20% of your training 5 minutes and under. These are just guidelines so experiment with yourself to find out where you thrive. When you take your conditioning past 20 minutes you tend to change pathways and allow yourself to become more aerobic. This is a bad thing when your goal is high intensity (high power output).
Here is how i would recommend making sure you and your clients training is maximized. First experiment on yourself. Get to know your body and its limitations. Try to get a feeling for how long it takes you to do certain exercises. For example i can do 100 squats in around 1:30. Knowing this allows you to estimate time domains for workouts you make up. You will get better at it with time.
A quick test would be to create a workout then try to estimate your time before you start the workout. Don’t look at the clock again till you are done with the workout and see how close you were. Notice if some exercises took longer than expected or if some were shorter. This will give you a better handle on your capacity as well as a better understanding of your ability to gage workouts.
Now is the complicated part. How do you make this work for clients of different capacities? Simple, you scale it. There is a little more to it than that. As a trainer there are a couple ways this can go.
First, you lay a great foundation and each and every one of your clients knows exactly how to scale each workout. This foundation can be laid either with years of training with you and a deep understanding of their own capacity. Another simpler way would be to give them a metric. For example when they see 135lbs come up in a workout, they know automatically that they are to use 95 lbs. You then have to keep a close eye on them. When that load is too easy and you notice they are finishing workouts way ahead of others you may have to check them. This is way over simplifying but you get the point.
The second way i have seen work is not posting loads on any workout and encouraging your clients to explore their ability. They will make mistakes both too heavy (harder) and too light (easier). With your guidance they will come to a point where they know their abilities. This frees you from checking up on them and has made them more independent during a class. They can also assist others by sharing their experiences with selected loads. A key point here is that you as the trainer should have an idea of what you would have prescribed the load to be. Without that you would not know what to base peoples performance on.
An important point to understand is that scaling goes beyond loads. To name a few you can scale reps, rounds, and movements (pullups with a band, dips with a band, distance on a run or row, height on a box jump,).
When you are scaling a workout, in my opinion, you are trying to give that person the same effect everyone else is getting. Think about doing a 10 minute fran.... then think about doing it in 2 minutes. Think there will be a difference in the stimulus? I saw a great example of this yesterday. The workout was:
Walking lunge 100 ft.
21 Pull-ups
21 Sit-ups
Walking lunge 100 ft.
18 Pull-ups
18 Sit-ups
Walking lunge 100 ft.
15 Pull-ups
15 Sit-ups
Walking lunge 100 ft.
12 Pull-ups
12 Sit-ups
Walking lunge 100 ft.
9 Pull-ups
9 Sit-ups
Walking Lunge 100 ft.
6 Pull-ups
6 Sit-ups
It took the person i was watching 25+ minutes (lets call them athlete 1). If you check the comments on Crossfit.com you will see the fastest time was Chris Spealer at 6:07. Oddly enough i witnessed that one as well. To say the least there was a big difference in the two workouts. For athlete 1 the pullups were heavily broken up while everything else went off without a hitch. When athlete 1 finished the only thing that was apparent was that they were upset. Athlete 1 was not winded nor did they look like they had just done a crossfit workout. Obviously Chris’s workout was not broken up at all but when he finished he was heavily winded.
My point here is that athlete 1 got tons of work on pullups which they probably needed but if you look at the workout and what Chris did to it you would realize that the goal wasn’t to work on pullups, it was to get some metabolic conditioning. Athlete 1 could have scaled this back a bit and gotten more out of the workout. If they still feel that they need work on pullups, before and after the workout is a great time for this. Increasing individual power is the goal. I bet the power output of a scaled version would have been much higher than what athlete 1 put out in the workout as prescribed.
The last thing i have to say about this is no matter what you have created as a workout, have a clear goal in your head about the response and time domain you are looking for. Then give this stimulus to everyone. Your goal here is to make everyones time look identical, or at least within 2-3 minutes of each other.
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scherz
Registered: 06/18/07
Posts: 793
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coachlowy
Registered: 12/09/05
Posts: 256
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Reply with quote | #31 |
Dutch just won the Southwest Crossfit Qualifier in Dallas over 150 entries. Entrants from Texas, Oklahoma, Arkansas and Missouri. Dutch qualified for the National Crossfit Games in California in July. He came in 7th in this event last year. Check games.crossfit.com. Great win Dutch!! |
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DV
WPH Exec. Dir.
Registered: 03/21/08
Posts: 3,989
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Reply with quote | #32 |
We are fortunate to have Dutch helping our handball players with training tips, etc. Amazing work, man.
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scherz
Registered: 06/18/07
Posts: 793
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scherz
Registered: 06/18/07
Posts: 793
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versatil
Registered: 06/24/09
Posts: 5
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Reply with quote | #35 |
hi all, just getting back into handball after like a 6-8 year hiatus (since high school). wanted a sport i could get into that wouldn't be difficult to put it into lifestyle and more importantly maintain. after seeing the tips on this forum i was set on turning to handball for fun & fitness. played for the first time in forever this past sunday. aching everywhere.
i want to give crossfit a try but admittedly i'm a bit intimidated.
since i have fatigue issues (chronic fatigue syndrome, only avenue i've attacked so far is that something is off about my natural sleep, its efficiency, etc.) im always worried about overdoing a workout (not that i work out per se). was going to ask about scaling until I read the article above.
i guess i'll invest in a stop watch and abandon those anxieties soon, the whole point of going into a sport and not just a workout routine is so i could give something my all, crossfit seems perfect for this, too.
i appreciate the effort Dutch and other members have put forth =)
i see why they call it the filthy fifty... ayeesh D:
one day, one day!
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scherz
Registered: 06/18/07
Posts: 793
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Reply with quote | #36 |
Go for it versatil. I'm hardly a trainer or a fitness expert, but I know a very important and underrated training tool is diet. As far as fatigue goes, get rid of as much sugar as possible and you'll notice you can go farther with everything. For workouts, remember carbs before the workout, protein after. If you properly fuel yourself, you will be much better prepared for an intense workout. Anyone please correct me if I'm way off. Ease yourself into the filthy 50 though. I'm still doing it and it is unbelievable how hard it is. Every time I do it I tell myself it is the last one ever because it hurts so damn much. Fortunately I have a short memory. But I can now play 3 wall singles in the 100 degree heat now and still feel pretty good.
Do it until it hurts, then keep doing it.
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versatil
Registered: 06/24/09
Posts: 5
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Reply with quote | #37 |
nice. yeah my diet isn't bad since i don't have much of a choice (stomach issues, another syndrome). i guess it'll take some used to eating in regards to physical training though. im going to try and follow the crossfit for handball blog before i jump into a scaled down version of the filthy fifty. im also still trying to think of substitutes for items like the jumping one
pretty excited.
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versatil
Registered: 06/24/09
Posts: 5
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Reply with quote | #38 |
just tried my first crossfit workout as per the blog. was intense for me. took almost 7 minutes! had to rest to finish pushups. definitely feeling it, too.
what do you guys do to warm up for these workouts or before playing handball for that matter?
also how frequently should we perform one of these workouts?
thanks
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djsteinb
Registered: 03/12/09
Posts: 226
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Reply with quote | #39 |
Versatil, a great warm up for cross training and HB is very simple. A 5-7 minute walking routine forward then backward for 25-30 steps. Swing your arms high and low starting off at a moderate pace and increasing to a real quick walk, not run. This will warm up all the major muscle groups, get the blood flowing and a sweat started. The routine is also nearly imposible to cause injury and will not make you tired unless you are in real poor shape. You can stretch after the warm up much easier than when cold and then cross train or play HB. I've been using it for years to great success. |
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versatil
Registered: 06/24/09
Posts: 5
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